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Forum: Talk Sports
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The Yankees got better.
The Red Sox got, well, something.
The Rays talked a lot but did nothing, apparently because Andrew Friedman wouldn’t part with minor-league pitcher Jeremy Hellickson.
There is understandable frustration by Rays fans at the inability to address the need for a right-handed power bat, but I still have to wonder if Jason Bay - the object of most interest for the Rays - would have been the right guy anyway. While he is an all-star caliber player, he also hits .190 against left-handed pitching. The Rays are extremely vulnerable against lefties, which is why they were shopping for a trade in the first place. I’m just not sure Bay would have addressed that need, especially if the cost was a valuable piece of their future.
Hellickson likely will be on the Rays’ staff next season. As hard as good young pitching is to acquire, you can’t blame the Pirates for demanding him. You can also see why Friedman wouldn’t part with him. Interestingly, I heard Jim Duquette on the radio Thursday and he talked about getting caught up in deadline fever for trades. He admitted he did just that a few years back when, as GM of the Mets, he traded Scott Kazmir to the Rays.
Besides, I’m not sure the Red Sox didn’t fall back some. Bay’s a nice player but he’s not Manny Ramirez, who was traded to the Dodgers.
Taking that force out of the clubhouse is one thing, and obviously the Red Sox had justifiably had enough of his act. Taking that bat out of the middle of the order is quite another though. Boston had no choice but to trade him and Bay is probably as good a replacement as it could get, but the Red Sox are still weaker today than they were before the trade.
The Yankees are the big deadline winners. Pudge Rodriguez was a steal at catcher, Xavier Nady is a solid pickup, and Damaso Marte could be a valuable piece as a lefty reliever. Imagine a key Yankees-Rays game late in the season. Yanks lead by a run in the eighth. Two on, two out.
Just one chance to get the tying or go-ahead run in before Mariano Rivera comes in to close.
And what’s the matchup? Damaso Marte on the hill for the Yankees, while coming off the bench to pinch hit for Eric Hinske is the only right-handed bat on Joe Maddon’s bench ... Jonny Gomes.
Sleep the sleep of angels.
Posted by Edgar, East Chicago,IN on 08/02 at 12:38 AM
First of all, it was the mighty Jim Duquette that got Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir. Brignac needs another season in AAA and Jeremy Hellickson needs some work in the minors for 2 years; as well as Wade Davis. Out of the pitching corps, Price is ready.
Posted by Kevin, Palm Harbor FL on 08/01 at 07:02 PM
One way to gurantee that the Rays make the playoffs is to not allow BJ Upton to bat for himself anymore. Have him be the “automatic runner” for anyone else. He has no idea what he’s doing up there. It’s like he’s using a rolled up newspaper instead of a bat. Can’t we put it in his contract that he MUST bunt everytime up?
Posted by Sherri Patterson, Tarpon Springs on 08/01 at 06:10 PM
Who among us ever thought the Rays would be in first place in the AL East—3 games up on August 1st?
40-16 at home?
I have been a die hard Ray fan since the beginning. I think the new front office is the reason for where they are right now. They’ve made good decisions and haven’t mortaged the team’s future in questionable trades.
We aren’t a big market team and don’t have the money that they have. Andrew Friedman made a smart move not to make a move that wasn’t right.
GO RAYS. Get those bats going! You are all capable of far more so it’s amazing that you are where you are right now.
Posted by Tom Sweeney, Wimauma on 08/01 at 11:10 AM
Kevin, your right, It looks like the team for the Rays to watch out for is the Angles. For all those who wanted “Bay” he isn’t the right handed bat we needed, his average against left handers is less than his wieght....
Posted by H.B. Gonzalez, Tampa, FL on 08/01 at 10:52 AM
Friedman did the right thing by not making a trade. The Rays can compete with the players they have now. The Angels have the best record in the league and and are considered the best team. Both the Angels and Rays win with pitching and defense. Both teams have very similar hitting stats, but - check the stats - the Rays actually field and pitch better. The difference is that the Angels do all the little things better. They know how, when and where to bunt, always run hard to first and all the other bases, field with intensity (no lolly-gagging allowed) and strikeout much less - more productive outs. The Angels always play to get every run they can, one at a time, the Rays don’t. When they do, watch out!
Posted by James, Seminole on 08/01 at 10:51 AM
Being 21-154 with RISP these last 20 games, I haven’t seen this “team chemistry” lately.
Rays did the right thing in keeping thier prospects because we’re not planning on drafting inside the Top-25 anymore. So we had to keep our young talent on board.
However, not being able to find a single righthanded bat to replace Jonny Gomes was the biggest gaff of the day. If it’s not Rocco, they better bring up Ruggiano instead. Gomes sucks. He can’t hit or field. Why is he on the club? Leadership? My god…
Posted by Rick C, Tampa on 08/01 at 10:49 AM
Oh and Ray Ray, you always need pitchers. Every team needs pitchers and for that matter more pitchers than what they currently have. That is why if/when you give up a young pitcher (especially ones with the talent and potential as some of the players we have), it has to be in the right situation for the right player. Would Bay have been a fit here, sure. But only at a certain cost. Friedman played his cards, and yeah maybe he lost this hand. But he still has all of his chips to play the next hand.
Posted by Rick C, Tampa on 08/01 at 10:44 AM
This team will only succeed over the long haul if we build from within and trading away the future for short term success can only be done in very limited situations. This franchise is just entering the window of future success that we have all waited so patiently for. Why would you want to shorten that window in the first year of success? Have a little patience people and enjoy what you are seeing b/c it is only going to get better.
Posted by Rick C, Tampa on 08/01 at 10:41 AM
I applaud Friedman for not giving in to public pressure and making what would have been a stupid deal. if we were to match the quality of the players Pittsburgh got, a package of Talbot and players of that quality would not have done it. We would have had to include Davis and/or Hellickson plus Brignac and more. Absolutely not…
Posted by Kevin, Palm Harbor FL on 08/01 at 09:34 AM
The Rays can win the division. EVERY PLAYER MUST LEARN HOW TO BUNT AND HIT AND RUN. THEY MUST LEARN HOW TO EXECUTE THE SAFETY SQUEEZE AND THE DOUBLE STEAL. They need to play better fundamental baseball than the Sox and the Yankees. They can’t rely on the long ball.
Posted by Daniel Prekopa, Winter Haven on 08/01 at 08:33 AM
Phillips has said numerous times on ESPN that he did not trade Kazmir. Friedman should be fired. Every single team in contention in the American League not just made a move but a significant one, EXCEPT the Rays. And what really hurts, two of the players the Rays were after, Nady and Bay, went to division rivals. If you think, well, even if they don’t make the playoffs this year they will have a good team for years to come, well, everyone thought the Cleveland Indians would be great for years to come last season and look where they are now. It’s a fine line between 90 wins and 60. The Rays should have jumped at this rare opportunity.
Posted by Mark Breslow, Tampa, FL on 08/01 at 07:44 AM
Calm down, people. One of the biggest mistakes that a GM can make is making a trade at the trade deadline for the sake of making a trade. Yes, Bay would have been a nice piece to add to the puzzle, but it would have to have been at the right price. It is well known that the Rays have the most talented farm system in baseball, everyone wants a piece of it. The continued development of the farm system and the stockpiling of young talent will keep this team competitive for the long haul, not adding a player that may only help them for the next two months.
Posted by Ray Ray, Tampa on 08/01 at 07:15 AM
THere is no other way to look at it except the Rays missed an opportunity to improve their roster, and they didn’t. THey owed it to the players and the fans to make a deal, and they whiffed.
Accumulating young pitchers is a great strategy, because they are chips to use in the trading game that every team needs. Keeping them when you have no room at the top is stupid. THey will need to be added to the 40 man roster soon, or we lose them (a la Josh Hamilton, another Friedman blunder).
Brignac should be gone. He has no where to play, with Bartlett and Zobrist ahead, and Beckham behind him.
Friedman was wringing his hands over pitchers we won’t need over the next few years, and he may have cost us a playoff spot because of it.
Posted by Don Reid, Kenya, East Africa on 08/01 at 06:46 AM
Hi folks. This is the way Maddon will play it:
“guys, we started this thing together and we are going to end it together.We had what it takes to come this far, and we are only going to get better as we go forward.Bringing in an “outsider” to help us means we couldn’t do it ourselves. Lets show everyone that we had what it takes, and we have what it takes to get the job done.Now go out there and make us proud!” And that is exactly right. Let our young guys know we believe in them. Our bats WILL wake up. We have a DELICATE team chemistry with young players that can EASILY get knocked off kilter. Don’t mess with success!
Posted by mcd, st. pete on 08/01 at 05:24 AM
Funny, I’m not sure the Rays’ management deserves any breaks despite the team’s position this year. There’s a team about 4 hours away that manages to be small market AND to win championships. Even made a deal or two along the way to get there.
Posted by James Anderson, Lakeland, FL on 08/01 at 04:35 AM
Best season ever, and someone makes this post?
“Friedman should be fired
if the Rays don’t win the division in 09.”
It’s August and the Rays are in first by 3 games. Wow....and I can’t stop watching this young team. Great job Friedman. Sometimes the best choice is to hold the hand you’ve got.
GO RAYS!!!
Posted by Jeff McKenney, St. Pete Beach on 08/01 at 03:41 AM
No complaints from me. Mr. Friedman and the new management group have put together one of the best teams on baseball. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that he wouldn’t have pulled the trigger on a deal if he and Joe Maddon had believed the move would have made a significant difference in the outcome of THIS season. If the Rays don’t make a playoff appearance this year it will probably be because of the lack of pennant run experience from a few of the younger players. Way to stay with the organizational plan, Andrew!
Posted by Steve, Orlando on 08/01 at 03:37 AM
Kazmir,Shields,Garza,Price,and Davis in ‘09!! Hellickson is 2 years away,Joe.
Posted by Robert Logan, Tampa on 08/01 at 03:36 AM
Price, not Hellickson will be on the staff next season.
It was Steve Phillips, not Jim Duquette that traded Kazmir.
Theo Epstein knows a lot more about the BoSox chemistry then we do. If they made this trade it’ll be addition by subtraction and Bay will be fine for them...however, they didn’t add bullpen help and that’s the BoSox achilles heal.
Speaking of Bullpen help, TIM, you’re kind of harsh and Tampa’s BP is pretty solid. Especially in the playoffs when Sonny will be moved there to do with Percy, Howell, Wheeler and Balfour.
Posted by Tim, Tampa on 08/01 at 12:24 AM
I can understand not getting rid of Brignac, Price, Hellickson, etc. but to not put some kind of package together of Niemann, Talbot, single A players and even Zobrist to acquire another arm for the bullpen is just plain dumb. Oh wait, I forgot, the Rays have Opie for a GM. The fans deserve a win now attitude from management, next year may never come. If the Rays make the play-offs Friedman can thumb his nose at his critics, but if the Rays end up in third place, Friedman should be fired
if the Rays don’t win the division in 09.
Posted by Kevin, Palm Harbor FL on 07/31 at 09:20 PM
The RedSox are now dead. They will miss Manny big time. Bay comes no where near him. They will be sorry. Why didn’t they trade for Pudge?
The Yankees got better. No big deal. Don’t forget how Petite has been hammered recently and Mussina will not keep winning at the pace he has.
The Angels improved tremendously. Texiera should have become a Ray. Why didn’t we make that deal?
The Rays will make the playoffs and possibly win a round. But the Angels. Look out baby.
Posted by Mike, Tampa on 07/31 at 06:02 PM
Hellickson in the bigs next season? Huh, has anyone bothered to look at his numbers for the biscuits after dominating high A? He is at least two years away guys lets not kid ourselves. Especially with how slow we move pitching prospects through the system. He looks good on the mound but with a glut of prospects we could of parted with him for the chance to win now.
Posted by Mark, Lutz on 07/31 at 04:59 PM
Pudge is “half the man he used to be”
Red Sox did improve gaining Bay, its funny that if you don’t get the guy he immediately loses value.
Rays are hurting.... If that’s your matchup coming up late in the game.
Throw the Yanks out ...because they’ll zoom by us… maybe Big Papi gets upset the Sox traded Manny and he gets disgruntled. Otherwise, say a prayer each night as the Yanks are getting Wang back soon. Does anyone remember that guy...he shuts us and everyone down. I’m pulling for the Rays.. it’s going to build character.
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Posted by Edgar, East Chicago,IN on 08/02 at 12:39 AM
Once they go into the offseason, they can get a big bat in OF and experience reliever for Sonnanstine and Jackson. Niemann is a toss up. Relievers who could be up as next year is Morlan,Reid,Frontz,and Thayer. Ruggiano should in a Rays uniform right now and call up Baldelli ASAP. This is a deep organization and don’t forget 5 years from now these names, Tim Beckham,3B Burt Reynolds(not the actor),OF Ryan Royster, 1B Michael Sheridan, INF Julio Cedeno (in the VSL Rays) and the wild card is AAA C John Jaso.