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Forum: Talk Rays
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When Joe Maddon was asked about B.J. Upton’s latest lapse on the basepaths tonight, he wasn’t nearly as expansive as he has been in previous instances. He expressed his disapproval, said Upton would play tomorrow, and essentially took it to the next level by suggesting it was time for some others to get involved in the process.
“There’s also moments on a baseball team, in a clubhouse, when the other 24 people have to take care of some things,” said Maddon.
He didn’t name names, and Cliff Floyd didn’t know Maddon had just said that when the veteran launched into a lengthy, initially unsolicited monologue about Upton’s recent problems. It was fascinating to listen to, and a clear illustration of what Maddon and Andrew Friedman had in mind when they brought the likes of Floyd and Troy Percival in during the winter.
As he talked, Floyd expressed puzzlement about Upton’s failure to consistently hustle and admitted tonight’s display—Upton getting caught unaware on a ball he thought was a homer and tagged out coasting into second base for what he then thought would be a double—bothered and hurt him.
“The only reason I’m talking about it is because my heart is a little jacked up with that tonight. It bothered me,” Floyd said as he closed his remarks on the topic. “And you get choked up a little bit because it’s like, ‘Man, we’ve got something real special here.’ This is the most amazing thing for this team for a long, long time, and we don’t need to be talking about this stuff.”
Prior to that, Floyd talked at length about his desire to see Upton (who did not address the media tonight) turn things around.
“I just want everybody to know, he has a heart, man. He really wants to get it done, but we really haven’t put our finger on what it is that he’s doing. I mean, we haven’t put our finger on why he’s doing what he does. Great bunch of talent, but he’s going to get it right. Trust me, he will get it right before I leave here, and you’re going to see a different B.J.
“There’s 24 guys in here that are putting it on the line; he’s the 25th guy that’s putting it on the line also. It’s just every once in a while something goes off that you don’t want to go off. Like I say, he’s going to be in my mind one of the best players to play the game. But you don’t want to have anybody looking at you like you don’t really want it –- that you have all the ability in the world but you don’t really want it. I’ll tell you one thing about him tonight is he’s hurting, he’s hurting bad. I know he probably didn’t talk to you all tonight, but he’s hurting. I really believe you won’t see that again.
“Talking about a guy who has great speed here and who can do anything at any given time in a game to change it. He just has a cluster every once in a while. I know he cares a great deal. I talk to him every day, and his mind is there. It’s not about getting on him about this; it’s about running a ball out. That’s the easiest thing you can possibly do. That’s the one thing I believe, I promise you, I don’t think you’ll ever see again. I’m on him about as hard as you can be on him, and I’m not going to lay off until I quit the game. If it takes me to stay on him 24 hours a day, five hours a day at the field, I’m going to stay on him. It’s a shame to be labeled as a guy like that when that’s not who he’s about. If he was a dog, I would sit here and say, ‘You know he’s the worst player to ever play the game. I can’t stand him.’ But he’s not that way. He’s a great teammate. He cares about everyone in here. It’s just every once in a while he gets caught up in … I don’t know what it is, but we’re going to get to the bottom of it.”
Floyd was asked if he was disappointed to see what happened tonight considering all the drama over the weekend in Texas.
“That’s what it is – you just get disappointed,” he said. “Your heart hurts. Because I’m out there giving everything I’ve got. I empty the tank every time I step on the field. Everybody does, it’s not just me. I’m not saying just Cliff, because I’ve been through a lot. It’s just, this time of year, where we’re trying to get to, that’s the last thing you want to talk about. You want to talk about what happens on the field and we should be talking about how great it is to win the first game of the series coming back home. …
“You’ve got a guy who’s going to, in my opinion, be different. I think I’m putting my butt on the line by saying that, but I’m going to do everything possible and I think everybody else is going to do everything possible to make sure it don’t happen again. It’s not in Joe’s hands no more. It’s not in anybody else’s hands but ours as players.”
Posted by Todd, Tampa on 08/19 at 03:45 PM
They traded Delmon. They can trade Upton. Delmon has higher upside than BJ does and they sent him on his way. Not running out plays is NOT mistakes. That’s poor work ethic. If you can’t find it in yourself to play hard for $412,000…and getting benched….I’m not sure what will. Get it yet…Bob…
Posted by IVSPORT, San Francisco on 08/19 at 03:29 PM
I believe Upton when he says he’s sorry and I believe Floyd when he says he will do all he can to create a different BJ before Floyd retires. If Floyd wants to see the postseason, and maybe even some success in it, he better get cracking on BJ now so this never happens again.
Posted by Terri Cahill, Spring Hill, Florida on 08/19 at 03:16 PM
BJ will be here next year - he is just having lapses in judgement, I cant explain it, I think it puzzles the players as well. I think all in all he is a great player - look at the catch he made in centerfield last night. He needs to listen to Cliff
Posted by RICH, TAMPA on 08/19 at 03:15 PM
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO JUST LIKE TO STIR THE POT WHEN ACTUALLY THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN THE RAYS OR IN SPORTS IN GENERAL <> WHAT YOU CAN DO IS TO TOTALLY IGNOR THEM WHICH LEAVES THEM TO SEE THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR.<> THAT WILL MAKE THEM SICK & SORRY WITHOUT A REPLY <> MEANWHILE LET THE RAYS ROLL ON AND JUST ENJOY THE GOOD TIMES <> FORGET THE CLOWNS AS THEY COULD CARE LESS.
Posted by berlin, sarasota on 08/19 at 03:02 PM
This is no place to be pc Todd,get over it!
Posted by Bob Johnson, Tampa on 08/19 at 02:16 PM
Yeah Todd I’m twelve. That’s why I’m the one calling for one of the teams best players to be traded in his second full season, cause don’t you know, 23 year olds never make any mistakes and are perfect from the time they are born.
Posted by Todd, Tampa on 08/19 at 01:58 PM
Bob…name calling and insults? Are you twelve? Or is your name Bob Johnson Upton?
Posted by Bob Johnson, Tampa on 08/19 at 01:55 PM
Mike you are an idiot. Why would BJ’s trade value drop after the season. Are you even aware the BJ would have to pass through waivers to be traded, and all 29 teams would want to make a claim on him. He’s already one of the top players in the league and will only continue to get better. He had an outstanding rookie season last year(not sure if you were a fan then) while learning CF. He’s taken responsibility for his mistakes and will overcome them. Trading him, releasing him, or sending him down to the minors like some of you ignorant people on here suggest, would hurt the team tremoundously. Mark my words, BJ Upton will is, and will be, one of the best CFers in the majors for years to come.
Posted by Kevin, Palm Harbor on 08/19 at 01:51 PM
Kevin…You could be right. I hope not for his sake.
Posted by Kevin, Tampa on 08/19 at 01:07 PM
Time for a random drug test. Upton is so obviously on something. His behavior and mannerisms remind me so much of Dwight Gooden in his second season, when he was coked up and a shadow of his rookie year, both in performance and demeanor.
Posted by Mike, Clearwater on 08/19 at 12:44 PM
Andy: Is it a chronic problem with any other player? Maybe we haven’t seen it happen to other players because they don’t have the reputation that Upton has? The Rays had better hope that Upton has gotten the message. If they don’t trade him before further evidence that he hasn’t, his value will simply decline.
Posted by Andy, Sarasota on 08/19 at 11:25 AM
BJ is not the only player who has coasted into 2nd base on a double off the wall. Yet, Texiera’s and Riviera’s heads-up play got their desired result. When was the last time you ever saw that play happen? I have to believe Floyd’s sentiments are more accurate than what I see on a message board. I can remember back in Andruw Jones first two seasons when he failed to run out ground balls and Bobby Cox did exactly what Maddon did and sat him down after telling him that just having all the talent in the world is not enough if the effort isn’t there on every play. AJ certainly got the message and, after reading what Floyd said, I think BJ will as well. Great article, Mr. Lancaster.
Posted by Mike, Clearwater on 08/19 at 11:19 AM
I suspect that Upton’s trade value is higher now than it will be after the season. The actions that management has taken should have worked. I’m not sure management should wait for Upton’s next “brain cramp.”
Posted by H.B. Gonzalez, Tampa, FL on 08/19 at 10:27 AM
Last night, Upton’s loafing allowed the first baseman, who started out BEHIND him, to catch the ball and tag him out BEFORE he reached second. Unbelievable, unless you saw it with your own eyes. The problem is that Upton did exactly the same thing on a double in the previous game against Texas and has done it many, many times before. Opposing teams scout these lack of hustle plays and scheme to take advantage of a player’s poor effort. Take it to the bank! Upton’s lack of hustle also has been evident in the field and will come back to bite him, at the worst possible time, if he doesn’t start making the routine plays with the intensity required.
Posted by Christian, New York (temporarily) on 08/19 at 09:59 AM
Rich, It’s easier to read comments when they aren’t in all caps-
Posted by RICH, TAMPA on 08/19 at 09:03 AM
HEY RIVERVIEW KID..MORE ON BJ AS YOU FORGOT HE LEADS THE RAYS IN DOUBLES, RUNS SCORED,BB’S AND STOLEN BASES <> PLUS HE WAS THE FIRST GUY TO DRIVE IN A RUN OFF THE SUBMARINER IN 38 INNINGS <> ALL THIS WHILE HAVING AN OFF YEAR <>
THE BASE RUNNING WILL BE CORRECTED FOR HE IS STUBBORN LIKE NOT WANTING TO BE REMOVED FROM SS <> LONGO IS MY MAIN MAN, I PULL FOR ROCCO, PENA IS BACK AND WE STILL NEED CC <> HOWEVER WE RIDE WITH THE PITCHING <> THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE WHO CAN NOT SEE THE POSITIVE VIEWS LIKE MADDON CAN !!!
Posted by john, riverview on 08/19 at 08:29 AM
B J should have been yanked again. You can’t be a great player without intensity, and he doesn’t have any. It is pretty obvious he doesn’t really enjoy what he is doing, otherwise there would be great enthusiasm, which he doesn’t have. The guy is hitting .269, with 8 home runs and 57 rbi’s. Hardly the numbers any team would miss. And hardly the numbers that a would be supper star would put up. Compare that to Longoria, there is a rising star, and his number will prove it. I would have BJ shipped out of here so fast, it would make your head spin.
Posted by Kevin McNichol, Palm Harbor on 08/19 at 08:23 AM
BJ will be here next year and he will become one of the best players in the league. Now that Cliff and probably others are paying attention to him, which BJ probaly enjoys, he’ll get it. He definitely needs to run harder and I believe he needs instruction how to get out of the box quicker. His stride is much longer than other players so he takes longer to hit full speed. He should learn to shorten his first two or three strides out the box.
Posted by Todd, Tampa on 08/19 at 07:49 AM
BJ probably won’t be here next year. I do not know the specifics of his contract but they dumped Delmon Young, who was/is considered a better prospect. If he didn’t learn after the second benching? Dump him too. He is way too lackadaisical. Bring in someone who hustles. He can take his primadonna you know what right outta here. Obviously, he doesn’t appreciate the situation he’s in nor does he understand what this city has been through. Hello Nationals here comes Mr. Upton.
Posted by RICH, TAMPA on 08/19 at 06:27 AM
MADDON FOR MANAGER OF THE YEAR THAT IS EASY AND HE DID GREAT IN 2007 IF YOU CONSIDER LACK OF PLAYERS <> AS FOR UPTON BEING STUBBORN MAY TAKE HIM LONGER BUT HE SHOULD DO FINE, IN TIME YOU WILL SEE A STAR PLAYER <> IS IT TRUE THE RAYS HAVE 76 WINS TO MATCH THE ANGELS AND CUBS ? <> WOULD BE NICE TO FACE LOU & HIS MONEY BUILT TEAM IN THE BIG SERIES !!! IT IS OK TO DREAM !!
Posted by Bill, Largo on 08/19 at 03:08 AM
One, two, three strikes…you’re OUT! Upton’s been benched twice in the past week or so on this same issue and should have been yanked immediately after tonight’s game. Only this time, his third, they should send him back to Durham for some time to re-learn the fundamental of baseball, hustle. Either that or get him checked by a doctor for attention deficit disorder because apparently getting benched twice in a week isn’t getting the message through. No more excuses, this team doesn’t need this kind of distraction at this point in this season. These incidents could cost the team dearly.
Posted by Steve Hart, tampa on 08/18 at 11:13 PM
I was at the game and the worst part of that play was Tom Foley holding the runner at third. That allowed the outfielder to throw to 2nd. The runner on third stood flat-footed and watched Upton get tagged. Then Foley tried to hold the runner on third in the eighth and luckily, the runner only slowed up and ignored Foley to score the 6th run. Foley should resign. What about Guerrero letting a slow roller go between his legs? Noone called for him to be benched!
Posted by Scott, St. Pete on 08/18 at 10:51 PM
Someone better do somethingt about this because this isn’t funny anymore. BJ’s acting like a punk who doesn’t care and that’s not going to cut it anymore!
Posted by eddy Favara, tampa on 08/18 at 10:47 PM
The positive coming out of this situation with BJ is the emphasis on hustling (all the time). Floyd and BJ’s other teammates need to continue the process of self-discipline from within the ranks. BJ is a true talent I’m hoping he gets it and buys into what Maddon is preaching.
By the way why isn’t there more discussion of Maddon for Mgr of the Year?
If the Ray make the playoffs with the Maddon’s moves and philosophies it’s a no-brainer.
Good win tonight.
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Posted by Mike, Clearwater on 08/19 at 05:49 PM
Bob: You want to answer my question to Andy? Is there a chronic hustling problem with any other member of the team? What makes you so sure that the trend is going to reverse? Do words speak louder than actions to you? By the way—“tremoundously?” Feel free to call me an idiot, but I think you should use a spell checker.