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Forum: Talk Lightning
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You have to feel somewhat for John Tortorella and his coaching staff Thursday.
The Lightning did everything they were asked to do against Montreal and flat out dominated the Canadiens. Montreal didn’t get a sniff in that game as Tampa Bay outshot the Canadiens 43-20. Only on rare occasion have I witnessed the Lightning play that well to come out with a loss and it usually came when Roberto Luongo was in the opposing net.
Did Tampa play a perfect game? No, the backcheck was awful on Montreal’s first shorthanded goal and there’s no excuse for the forwards watching the play develop like it did and skating back into the play. And giving up another shorty late in the game is inexcusable.
But here we are 30-plus games into this season and a similar pattern to last year has already developed during the team’s currently seven-game slide - goaltending is letting them down.
I was a big believer in Marc Denis when the team acquired him and he sure looked like the real deal in the first month of the season when he wasn’t getting any goal support in front of him. Lately, however, he is conjuring up images of John Grahame from last season letting in questionable goals at key points in the game. Though you can’t really blame him on the first or second Montreal goal Thursday, he has to come up with a big save late and he didn’t do it.
When a team is doing everything right at one end of the ice, they need some help at the other end, especially with the way Cristobal Huet was playing. Thursday, it didn’t come in Tampa Bay’s net and that has been a problem of late.
The way the Lightning play they don’t need a goaltender to put in a Huet-like performance too often. Not many teams are going to put up 35-plus shots against Tampa Bay. So while they don’t need a goalie to steal too many games, they just need a performance which doesn’t lose them games and we saw that too often last season and it’s creeping up once again.
Is Denis the answer in goal for Tampa? Well, the team inked him to a three-year deal worth nearly $3 million per season so he has to be. Johan Holmqvist, as well as he played in November, has been awful in December. Is he the answer? Certainly not long term.
So if you are Jay Feaster, what do you do right now? Even though the team has only one win in the past seven games, the team has been playing well only to be let down by goaltending. Do you bring up Karri Ramo from Springfield to see what he can do? Do you find a trade for another goalie? Or do you live with what you got believing that Denis will shake out of his slump?
Let me know what you guys are thinking and I’ll check back in on Monday as I will enjoy a rare weekend getaway with the family.
Posted by Rob logan, Tampa on 12/18 at 01:30 PM
Hey Mike in Bangkok. It’s still not Kubina’s fault! Just teasing. Glad you’re still following the team from so far away.
Posted by Randy Buschmann, Panama City, Florida on 12/17 at 01:30 AM
another tough loss. Denis isn’t going anywhere. We’re not playing revolving door with our goaltending situation, folks. I fully expect either Prospal or Fedotenko, and probably Afanasenkov to be dealt, maybe along with Sarich, Janik or Richardson. This lineup is going to get a little shakeup one way or another. If I had my pick, I’d deal Prospal and Sarich together. We’ve lost 8 of the last 9. There are only 6 teams in the entire league right now with a worse record than Tampa.
Posted by Sean, Orlando on 12/16 at 10:43 PM
Agreed. Yet another game the Lightning had under control that they walk away with no points. If they don’t do something soon, they will be SERIOUSLY looking at a top 5 pick next year. They can’t just let them keep losing. There is NO sign of it stopping any time soon.
Posted by Mike Joyce, Bangkok, Thailand on 12/16 at 10:21 PM
Gee, another almost victory! Let’s celebrate.
If Feaster waits a little longer, we can look forward to a high draft pick. Then again, who would want Denis now that we have his salary at a super star level.
Posted by Roger Spanten, Tampa on 12/16 at 03:10 PM
Denis is not Grahame, at least not yet! Even Khabi had his slumps, perhaps at more opportune times, but he still had them. Lets wait a few weeks to pull the trigger—to the extent that is even an option. If HIS performance does not improve by January, then the Lightning have much bigger problems than Denis’ hit against the salary cap.
BTW, while Richards has been picking it up slightly as of late, he still seems to be getting a fairly free ride by the fans and media given his salary (which will certainly figure into what we have to spend to resign Vinny—who has actually played with passion this year).
Posted by T Branham, Bradenton on 12/16 at 08:03 AM
Nothing cures a losing streak like a winning streak...Bolts will attack a struggling Carolina team that played last night…
Posted by Mike Joyce, Bangkok, Thailand on 12/16 at 03:50 AM
Who are we kidding about outplaying the opposition? That only counts for losers to not feel too bad about being losers. For everyone else, the only thing that counts is the scoreboard at the end of the game. Almost winning is still losing.
No one questions the talent, but it seems like we don’t have any hitters or the team is being told not to take penalties. Meanwhile everyone else is teeing off on our players.
Could it be that Torts has lost the team? No one is saying that - at least not in Bangkok, Thailand.
Posted by Mike Moulton, Gainesville on 12/16 at 03:30 AM
Well the bolts are 30 games into the season and can’t seemto get it going. Time to make some changes maybe. As long as the team is not winning I say start getting some of those AHL defenders ready. Bring up Smaby and Egener or O’Brien and unload some of the current defensemen. Also consider moving Fedetenko and Prospal as neither has been productive. As for goaltending, maybe we should get Ramo up here to see what he can do—couldit get any worse?
Posted by Ken Knaebel, St. Pete, FL on 12/16 at 03:24 AM
Feaster picked the players and Geaster backs the coaching staff and yet the on ice result is poor. Jay needs to take a good look in the mirror and remind himself of who has contributed to the dilemma.
The goaltending has not improved. The special teams, under Ramsay, has been stagnant, and their stuck in salary cap purgatory.
Hang on because there’s no quick fix and being stubborn won’t fix anything. It’s looking like an “Art Williams” kind of year for Lightning fans.
Thank goodness Vinny finally realized what he was capable of doing.
Posted by Andrzej Baniukiewicz, St. Petersburg on 12/16 at 12:44 AM
Calculated league-average goals scored and allowed in a game are 2.94. This calculation was based on performance of 29 teams excluding TBL. The corresponding numbers for TBL are around 3.23.
I conclude that, on average, the players of TBL score more goals than NHL team but the goalies allow more goals. If I were the manager of TBL I would concentrate on goalies rather then on forwards.
I had no insight into number of shots allowed by the NHL teams. However, suppose TBL allows more shots than an average team in NHL. Then the defense of TBL should also be reinforced. Mr. Feaster seems to be confused in his search of the Team’s problem. Exchanging forwards and leaving goalies intact may bring grieve consequences.
Posted by Chris Bell, Sarasota on 12/15 at 11:30 PM
Rift?
When 3 guys take up the lions share of the dollars, rift happens.
Good luck Torts
Posted by Barbara Huth, Vero Beach, FL on 12/15 at 09:15 PM
Does anyone else miss Khabibulin? Does no use to miss him I guess but what a shame he’s gone.
Sure, bring Ramo up - why not?
To address the Artyukhin situation - while I do miss the energy and excitement that he brought to the team and was very sad to see him go - there is no way he was worth the 1 million he was asking for. I am sorry, what did he score - 4 goals? Don’t get me wrong - I loved every minute Arty was on the ice but he was not worth 1 million dollars.
I think we need to get rid of Richardson and Prospal.
I think we should have done flips and tricks to sign Luongo.
But that is just my opinion and in the big scheme of things it doesn’t really matter what I think
Posted by Randy Buschmann, Panama City, Florida on 12/15 at 07:49 PM
This is one of the more bizarre stretches in Lightning history in my opinion. Here the team has only won a game in their last 8, but for the most part have outplayed their opposition every night. Through 32 games the Bolts have only be outshot 10 times. Something isn’t right, and what I think ultimately its boiling down to right now is chemistry. Craig, Alexeev, Perrin, Janik, Kuba, Denis, Holmqvist, Karlsson, Richardson, Tarnasky, and maybe even throw Roy into the mix. These guys are taking a little longer to get it up, I strongly believe Denis is still the goaltender we need. Don’t give up on him yet. But we do need another solid defenseman, one of Richardson or Janik have to go.
Posted by Mike Joyce, Bangkok, Thailand on 12/15 at 07:33 PM
There’s not much benefit in wishing Artyukin back. He’s diminishing what he learned by playing in Russia. The time to have done something was to use the money that was used to sign Richardson to sign Artyukin. By the way, why did we sign Richardson, only to have him around for a healthy scratch?
Posted by Mike Joyce, Bangkok, Thailand on 12/15 at 04:38 PM
There is far too much talent on this team for them to be playing such sloppy hockey. There has to be a rift a mile wide on the team, and no one seems to want to address the problem.
They show what can be done, with great brilliance, then in key situations, they give up the lead and find novel ways to lose the game, while exerting a tremendous amount of energy to look like they are giving an all out effort. The heart part just isn’t there.
I may not be able to see the games, but even listening, which is all I can do, gives me that much of a clue.
Posted by Rob Logan, Tampa on 12/15 at 03:00 PM
Alexeev/Richards/Kvapil
Perrin/Vinnie/St Louis
Craig/Jones/Artyukin
Roy/Taylor/Tarnasky
Kuba/Boyle
Ranger/Janik
Smaby/Rogers/Egener/O’Brien
Denis
Ramo
Frankly, the forwards don’t look bad, but the team probably has to bring in two defenseman this offseason.
Otherwise the team is only dumping Holmqvist’s mini streak, inconsistant Feds, and slow pokes Pratt & Sarich, and Afanasenkov. They’ll lose experience, but gain speed, hunger, draft picks and cap space.
Posted by Rob Logan, Tampa on 12/15 at 03:00 PM
As Feb approaches be ready to move pending UFAs like Sarich & Feds and hopefully move Prospal to a team needing center help like Chicago. As long as the team only gets back draft picks and contracts that don’t extend past this season, the team can try to establish more organization depth while cutting into payroll. Of course, the above means dipping into Springfield for 3 or 4 players next season. And those players may not be ready. But the flip side is payroll will be more like $37Mill and Feaster won’t have to trade one of the big 3.
Posted by Ruthe Robertson, St Petersburg on 12/15 at 02:29 PM
Admit they made a mistake with all the accolades and praise they gave Denis. Probably stuck with him for this season but make plans now for the future. I would like to see some of these guys sent down to Springfield and Jones, Fritz and Ramo brought up. With the cap we are doomed for the future if we don’t start developing players in our system now. Feaster has ruined the team. Remind him that just because a player played for the Hershey Bears doesn’t mean he’s an NHL player. Plus, you can’t keep Marty on the ice for 60 minutes.
Posted by Tony Nic, Sarasota on 12/15 at 01:28 PM
Denis made some HUGE stops at times but did not follow all of that up with the key stops.
Forwards definitely quit on both shorthanded goals. How many times did the puck roll over the defenseman’s stick at the point on the PP during that game? our PP is so horrific its just sad.
In my poor pathetic little mind it all points to coaching. It’s not like the coaches got stupid overnight, it’s that the players are no longer responding.
Feaster is just too darn stubborn. Saw stats for our goalie combo compared to last year and we are actually worse off now than last year!!! That is sad!
Posted by billy pilgrim, tampa on 12/15 at 11:48 AM
and last night denis didn’t give up any soft-rebound goals like he’s capable of doing—instead of turning shots away from the goal his rebounds fall down right in front—so i’m not sure you can pin the blame for this one on him.
other times, certainly.
Posted by billy pilgrim, tampa on 12/15 at 11:46 AM
the play on the two sh goals was telling: the forwards gave up on the play both times. even st. louis, the hardest working guy on this team, is seen watching on the third goal.
which begs the question—is there a rift developing between the hard-working forwards and the defense?
or another—at this point, why are we playing two defenders on the pp? they can’t even stop an even-man rush. might as well overpower them with 4 forwards instead.
or—when was the last time you saw a lightning defender knock anyone down at the blue line?
go back and watch the sh goals: the forwards give up. and i’m not sure i blame them. it sure looks like a rift is developing to me.
Posted by Troy Branham, Bradenton on 12/15 at 10:38 AM
The harsh reality is that the Lightning, money wise, have boxed themselves in as well as most NHL teams...major trade isn’t going to happen...they must grind it out with what they have. The goaltending position is wide open in my view so give Ramo his shot but my fear is that since the D is playing subpar as well, Ramo may take a confidence hit.
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Posted by Mike Joyce, Bangkok, Thailand on 12/18 at 04:45 PM
Thanks, Rob. Once a fan, always a fan even when it is difficult - and it has been last year and this year.
By the way, the temperature finally dipped below 90F yesterday. Winter will last till Wednesday.
Merry Christmas